These are NOT physicians or medical specialists. These are social media grifters, and primarily, grown ass MEN, getting kids in secret discord servers and "helping" them. Big difference. And as much as I'm disgusted about the post-Roe restrictions, this isn't a gray area.
These are NOT physicians or medical specialists. These are social media grifters, and primarily, grown ass MEN, getting kids in secret discord servers and "helping" them. Big difference. And as much as I'm disgusted about the post-Roe restrictions, this isn't a gray area.
Also if they were doctors would it really matter? Would you be surprised if activist docs would be sending T and E through the mail to basically anyone who asked? I would be surprised if they werenтАЩt. ItтАЩs hardly solving the problem to go after Keffals - underlying problem is still that kids now think they need this and anyone keeping it from them is a bigot.
I think it matters. First, if a doctor is found to be negligent they can lose their license. They also have to carry insurance so if they lose a liability case, they can pay up.....and their insurance goes up so there's a penalty to their practice.
There also has to be a log of who they proscribed to and how much.
Whether you think what a doctor is right or wrong, the systems are in place to hold them accountable once the evidence is out.
This is dramatically different than some twitter nut sourcing blackmarket T from Mexico and mailing it to 12 year olds.
Thing is that I donтАЩt mind if non doctors are sending abortion pills and plan B to Texas because in my opinion the laws banning them are killing women and this is a morally acceptable workaround in an untenable situation.
The same argument is made by trans activists about hormones. ItтАЩs тАЬlife saving medical careтАЭ to them as well - saving these kids from bigoted parents and a society that doesnтАЩt care if they suffer.
ItтАЩs hard to think of the criteria here other than тАЬwell I personally think that A is OK and B is badтАЭ
My criteria is that substances that carry medical risk should be proscribed by doctors or medical professionals (pharmacists) and not activists.
I think drugs should be fully decriminalized. But I'd feel uneasy about activists mailing oxy to just anyone that asks.
If there are a lack of doctors, pharmacists, and volunteers willing to connect you with doctor's and pharmacists to get the treatment you need, I might see the point. But since there is no dearth of access (virtual or otherwise) to professionals, I'm not on board with random activists mailing abortion pills.
For example, in the past when abortion was completely prohibited I sympathize and would support the underground effort to provide some kind of abortion access. But not today.
Take the worst case we saw in the news today. The 10 year old rape victim who was refused care. On the one hand, it shows just how fucked up these laws are. On the other, her doctor took her to a neighboring state where she received the procedure. Showing that, in very significant ways, we are not in the same situation we were decades ago before Roe.
I think we're different in the conclusion, in that I really do think that some women will die without some "illegal" activities happening and therefore I don't support any laws about interstate drug mailing being enforced in a heavy handed manner. A precedent set wrt digging through mail to figure out who is sending hormones will likely lead to similar situation in the abortion / planB case. If I have to accept that a few kids will get hormones in the mail I'm willing to accept that cost.
Also there is a dearth of professionals, or there will be soon. Many states have made it illegal for medical practitioners to send prescribe these drugs to patients out of state, and send them to states where abortion is illegal, or are working on getting such laws passed. E.g. the Texas vigilante law maybe could be applied here. Those docs aren't going to risk their licenses or being sued. Hence why the underground pathway is needed. That 10yo girl could be one of the lucky few out of many, many more who simply can't get out of their town, let alone out of state, and need the mail pathway. We aren't going to hear about these girls.
Do you not think they're already surveying the mail for this stuff? There's an entire organization just for doing investigations of crimes/fraud via US mail. https://www.uspis.gov
You can wish these criminals well (activists doing something illegal because they have good intentions are still criminals), but if I come across any of this I will archive the shit out of it and report it. No one is above the law.
"I donтАЩt mind if non doctors are sending abortion pills and plan B to Texas" -- I missed that day in school where the rule of law in the US only matters if we agree. It doesn't matter whether you think it's okay "just in this circumstance because that thing over there is awful, even immoral" -- can you not see that people who fought against abortion may also be taking a moral view that the life of the fetus matters? Some crazy people have used their feelings about how abortion is immoral to justify murdering doctors ("hey, it's not murder if I think the victim was acting against my morals"). This is why we have to defend the rule of law, even when it's hard. A country can't survive if there is no understanding that there are laws & punishments for breaking those laws, applied equally even if you're sympathetic to the perpetrator.
These are NOT physicians or medical specialists. These are social media grifters, and primarily, grown ass MEN, getting kids in secret discord servers and "helping" them. Big difference. And as much as I'm disgusted about the post-Roe restrictions, this isn't a gray area.
The womens groups sending meds to women in states with draconian laws are also not MDs. The situations are not that different legally speaking.
Also if they were doctors would it really matter? Would you be surprised if activist docs would be sending T and E through the mail to basically anyone who asked? I would be surprised if they werenтАЩt. ItтАЩs hardly solving the problem to go after Keffals - underlying problem is still that kids now think they need this and anyone keeping it from them is a bigot.
I think it matters. First, if a doctor is found to be negligent they can lose their license. They also have to carry insurance so if they lose a liability case, they can pay up.....and their insurance goes up so there's a penalty to their practice.
There also has to be a log of who they proscribed to and how much.
Whether you think what a doctor is right or wrong, the systems are in place to hold them accountable once the evidence is out.
This is dramatically different than some twitter nut sourcing blackmarket T from Mexico and mailing it to 12 year olds.
Thing is that I donтАЩt mind if non doctors are sending abortion pills and plan B to Texas because in my opinion the laws banning them are killing women and this is a morally acceptable workaround in an untenable situation.
The same argument is made by trans activists about hormones. ItтАЩs тАЬlife saving medical careтАЭ to them as well - saving these kids from bigoted parents and a society that doesnтАЩt care if they suffer.
ItтАЩs hard to think of the criteria here other than тАЬwell I personally think that A is OK and B is badтАЭ
My criteria is that substances that carry medical risk should be proscribed by doctors or medical professionals (pharmacists) and not activists.
I think drugs should be fully decriminalized. But I'd feel uneasy about activists mailing oxy to just anyone that asks.
If there are a lack of doctors, pharmacists, and volunteers willing to connect you with doctor's and pharmacists to get the treatment you need, I might see the point. But since there is no dearth of access (virtual or otherwise) to professionals, I'm not on board with random activists mailing abortion pills.
For example, in the past when abortion was completely prohibited I sympathize and would support the underground effort to provide some kind of abortion access. But not today.
Take the worst case we saw in the news today. The 10 year old rape victim who was refused care. On the one hand, it shows just how fucked up these laws are. On the other, her doctor took her to a neighboring state where she received the procedure. Showing that, in very significant ways, we are not in the same situation we were decades ago before Roe.
I think we're different in the conclusion, in that I really do think that some women will die without some "illegal" activities happening and therefore I don't support any laws about interstate drug mailing being enforced in a heavy handed manner. A precedent set wrt digging through mail to figure out who is sending hormones will likely lead to similar situation in the abortion / planB case. If I have to accept that a few kids will get hormones in the mail I'm willing to accept that cost.
Also there is a dearth of professionals, or there will be soon. Many states have made it illegal for medical practitioners to send prescribe these drugs to patients out of state, and send them to states where abortion is illegal, or are working on getting such laws passed. E.g. the Texas vigilante law maybe could be applied here. Those docs aren't going to risk their licenses or being sued. Hence why the underground pathway is needed. That 10yo girl could be one of the lucky few out of many, many more who simply can't get out of their town, let alone out of state, and need the mail pathway. We aren't going to hear about these girls.
Do you not think they're already surveying the mail for this stuff? There's an entire organization just for doing investigations of crimes/fraud via US mail. https://www.uspis.gov
You can wish these criminals well (activists doing something illegal because they have good intentions are still criminals), but if I come across any of this I will archive the shit out of it and report it. No one is above the law.
"I donтАЩt mind if non doctors are sending abortion pills and plan B to Texas" -- I missed that day in school where the rule of law in the US only matters if we agree. It doesn't matter whether you think it's okay "just in this circumstance because that thing over there is awful, even immoral" -- can you not see that people who fought against abortion may also be taking a moral view that the life of the fetus matters? Some crazy people have used their feelings about how abortion is immoral to justify murdering doctors ("hey, it's not murder if I think the victim was acting against my morals"). This is why we have to defend the rule of law, even when it's hard. A country can't survive if there is no understanding that there are laws & punishments for breaking those laws, applied equally even if you're sympathetic to the perpetrator.