I generally agree w Katie and Jesse’s takes even though these days I lean more conservative but holy shit they are so wrong on the inappropriate group chat of people who are supposed to be beyond reproach in our security agencies. The disrespect and absolute contempt for norms is such a red flag. People who post like this where it’s acce…
I generally agree w Katie and Jesse’s takes even though these days I lean more conservative but holy shit they are so wrong on the inappropriate group chat of people who are supposed to be beyond reproach in our security agencies. The disrespect and absolute contempt for norms is such a red flag. People who post like this where it’s accessible to their employeers, colleagues and can be FOIAed show a profound lack of understanding and should never be trusted with state secrets. Fuck yea Tulsi. Fire every one of them and anyone else who would post like this in a work chat.
“Oh it’s not fair because other people saying inappropriate stuff weren’t fired”. I mean, where are *those* screenshots? Of people saying similarly inappropriate things that were not significantly disciplined? (If that *did* happen, a key difference is that it didn’t go public. Which may not be fair, but I have no expectation that I could discuss my butthole on a company network, have that chat published in a national outlet, and keep my job)
For some reason Jesse and Katie go straight from “there have been some previous issues with inappropriate conversations on the chat before” to “similar conversations were happening *all the time* and this was widely accepted as normal and appropriate”. I highly doubt that’s the case.
As for “secure chats” I believe that just means this was the equivalent of Teams or Slack on a *secure network*, an intranet, not necessarily classified conversations.
This seems to be the tenor of most comments here. But they said it was on a group chat specifically for LGBT people right? Getting mad about this is a bit like getting mad about people praying in the prayer room, no?
I mean, there probably shouldn’t be a group chat focused on personal LGBT stuff at work, but if management sets it up, it’s weird to get mad at people for using it.
This seems to assume that an LGBT group chat is inherently going to involve inappropriate and explicit topics like "getting your butthole zapped" and being penetrated. Having worked at multiple companies with LGBT employee groups and chats, they're typically focused on much more mundane topics such as Pride events. Anything even remotely close to what occurred at the NSA would have been immediate grounds for firing.
I was mostly with you till the last sentence. Immediate grounds for firing? No harassment involved. No bullying, no direct incompetence. Just mentioning the details of transition?
Discussing the mechanics of how you obtain sexual pleasure does not become “safe for work” just because it’s related to gender transition. Same goes for the details of your anal grooming routine.
Is it always grounds for immediate firing? No, but I feel like it’s one of those things that if you do get fired for, you pretty much have to say, “well that’s a fair cop”.
I agreed with Katie’s analysis that the “euphoria” comment about peeing referred to the opposite of dysphoria, i.e., feeling comfortable in one’s skin. Did they say something else wrt sexual pleasure?
On a group chat that the whole org can pop into and see? Never. A quiet exchange 121 over a cup of tea with someone I’m quite friendly with has happened, but even that’s been quite seldom and on a NTK basis.
I’ve heard similar, but NOT in the gov spaces I’ve been in because everything is FOI-able. Not only was it emblazoned at the top of Slack channels, people reminded each other about it in DMs. To go back to the original story, it’s mind boggling that any gov staff felt so relaxed about posting that kind of information in the middle of a culture war. The places I’ve been in got about as political as inviting people to community gardening projects via Slack.
No way. You might be able to get away with this in a private after hours conversation at the LGBT group happy hour, but companies are going to stay far away from anything that looks like company promotion of explicit conversations on sexual topics.
Why would an LGBT WORK chat include talking buttholes and urinating? This is not appropriate for ANY work chat. And the fact that these folks are trusted with state secrets makes me shudder. Same as if some bros were talking about UTIs or getting their buttholes zapped for swim seasons.
I generally agree w Katie and Jesse’s takes even though these days I lean more conservative but holy shit they are so wrong on the inappropriate group chat of people who are supposed to be beyond reproach in our security agencies. The disrespect and absolute contempt for norms is such a red flag. People who post like this where it’s accessible to their employeers, colleagues and can be FOIAed show a profound lack of understanding and should never be trusted with state secrets. Fuck yea Tulsi. Fire every one of them and anyone else who would post like this in a work chat.
“Oh it’s not fair because other people saying inappropriate stuff weren’t fired”. I mean, where are *those* screenshots? Of people saying similarly inappropriate things that were not significantly disciplined? (If that *did* happen, a key difference is that it didn’t go public. Which may not be fair, but I have no expectation that I could discuss my butthole on a company network, have that chat published in a national outlet, and keep my job)
For some reason Jesse and Katie go straight from “there have been some previous issues with inappropriate conversations on the chat before” to “similar conversations were happening *all the time* and this was widely accepted as normal and appropriate”. I highly doubt that’s the case.
As for “secure chats” I believe that just means this was the equivalent of Teams or Slack on a *secure network*, an intranet, not necessarily classified conversations.
Right on! I don't work for the government, but my butt would be out the door within 5 minutes if I said any of that on a work slack!
This seems to be the tenor of most comments here. But they said it was on a group chat specifically for LGBT people right? Getting mad about this is a bit like getting mad about people praying in the prayer room, no?
I mean, there probably shouldn’t be a group chat focused on personal LGBT stuff at work, but if management sets it up, it’s weird to get mad at people for using it.
This seems to assume that an LGBT group chat is inherently going to involve inappropriate and explicit topics like "getting your butthole zapped" and being penetrated. Having worked at multiple companies with LGBT employee groups and chats, they're typically focused on much more mundane topics such as Pride events. Anything even remotely close to what occurred at the NSA would have been immediate grounds for firing.
I was mostly with you till the last sentence. Immediate grounds for firing? No harassment involved. No bullying, no direct incompetence. Just mentioning the details of transition?
Discussing the mechanics of how you obtain sexual pleasure does not become “safe for work” just because it’s related to gender transition. Same goes for the details of your anal grooming routine.
Is it always grounds for immediate firing? No, but I feel like it’s one of those things that if you do get fired for, you pretty much have to say, “well that’s a fair cop”.
I agreed with Katie’s analysis that the “euphoria” comment about peeing referred to the opposite of dysphoria, i.e., feeling comfortable in one’s skin. Did they say something else wrt sexual pleasure?
The first pull quote was literally about how they now found being penetrated sexually pleasurable.
My mistake then.
I have never worked in a place where anyone was discussing the details of medical procedures. Ever.
That’s weird, I definitely have had colleagues share medical information with me. No one’s having vaginoplasties though.
On a group chat that the whole org can pop into and see? Never. A quiet exchange 121 over a cup of tea with someone I’m quite friendly with has happened, but even that’s been quite seldom and on a NTK basis.
Yes, I've quietly shared personal information with long-term co-workers I deeply trusted, but I can't imagine putting it in a group chat.
I agree, I wouldn’t do it! But a lot of people treat slack like a water cooler, so I hear.
I’ve heard similar, but NOT in the gov spaces I’ve been in because everything is FOI-able. Not only was it emblazoned at the top of Slack channels, people reminded each other about it in DMs. To go back to the original story, it’s mind boggling that any gov staff felt so relaxed about posting that kind of information in the middle of a culture war. The places I’ve been in got about as political as inviting people to community gardening projects via Slack.
No way. You might be able to get away with this in a private after hours conversation at the LGBT group happy hour, but companies are going to stay far away from anything that looks like company promotion of explicit conversations on sexual topics.
Why would an LGBT WORK chat include talking buttholes and urinating? This is not appropriate for ANY work chat. And the fact that these folks are trusted with state secrets makes me shudder. Same as if some bros were talking about UTIs or getting their buttholes zapped for swim seasons.