These are surgeries that destroy sexual function, reproductive capacity and have a range of other risk factors. Just once I would like to see an activist/ally type explain how the the removal of healthy, developing and functioning breasts and genitals of children and very young adults is …
These are surgeries that destroy sexual function, reproductive capacity and have a range of other risk factors. Just once I would like to see an activist/ally type explain how the the removal of healthy, developing and functioning breasts and genitals of children and very young adults is something BESIDES mutilation.
Dr. Marci Bowers, a transwoman, and VERY experienced surgeon, has acknowledged that biologically male children blocked in tanner stage 2 and who then have genital surgery to construct an approximation of a vagina aren’t able to achieve orgasm as young adults. Tanner stage two is pre-teen age wise. I am dumbfounded that anyone would be able to think that a 12 year old could give meaningful consent to never being able to experience sexual climax or have children. This isn’t routine plastic surgery.
Sometimes I use the word "maim," because it puts the onus on the physicians doing these barbaric treatments when they took an oath to "first do no harm."
12-year-olds aren't consenting to genital surgery, because it is not performed on 12-year-olds.
As for removal of healthy, developing and functioning tissue, have you let, say, Simona Halep know of your concerns that she has "mutilated" herself, or does this particular bit of hectoring only apply to trans youth?
There’s a pathway here. Blockers >>> hormones>>>surgery as older teen or very young adult.
For natal males, blocking in tanner stage two and continuing to estrogen is proving to be essentially irreversible- they can have surgery without enough tissue for the surgeon to work with or they can live with a non-functioning, under developed penis. Most go on to have surgery and the surgical outcomes aren’t great. It’s such a lie to say that 12 year olds aren’t consenting to anything irreversible. It’s a comfortable lie but it’s a lie nonetheless.
This is an issue that I have lived in a much more personal way than you can probably comprehend- paying for and providing post-operative caregiving for my FTM sibling after his double mastectomy in 2002 to mothering a now desisted son to loving and taking care of several additional trans-identified children.
I used to make similar pro-trans arguments. I used to play on your team or at least an adjacent one.
As a mom of children who aren’t transgender but who got caught up in identifying as such for complex reasons, I had no choice but to reevaluate and deeply question my “good liberal” biases and beliefs. Once I did that, insisting puberty blockers are just “a harmless pause button” and that no irreversible surgeries are done in young people without extensive therapeutic safeguards in place was no longer an option. I’ve spoken to doctors, therapists, endocrinologists, parents, happily trans adults, desisted and detransitioned teens and adults. We are living through a medical malpractice scandal, one that hurts transgender people as much as those who ultimately end up desisting or detransitioning.
What you call “hectoring” I would call “saving my child (who has long expressed a desire to be a father someday) from sterilizing himself” and “reminding my niece that liking girls doesn’t mean she’s a boy- it’s really ok to be a lesbian”.
Many good points here. Thank you also for letting us know your personal experiences.
In particular I appreciate you bringing up the dubious nature of the consent involved in surgeries if the child (and parents) have already been on this path for years and (understandably) feel committed to it.
Also, comparing an elective double mastectomy to breast reduction is such a silly argument. A double mastectomy completely eliminates the primary functions of the breasts- a reduction can often be done in such a way that most function is maintained. Have you listened to any detransitioned women speak about their experiences or is your opinion rooted in your own unchallenged political beliefs?
Right?
What word besides mutilation works for this?
These are surgeries that destroy sexual function, reproductive capacity and have a range of other risk factors. Just once I would like to see an activist/ally type explain how the the removal of healthy, developing and functioning breasts and genitals of children and very young adults is something BESIDES mutilation.
Dr. Marci Bowers, a transwoman, and VERY experienced surgeon, has acknowledged that biologically male children blocked in tanner stage 2 and who then have genital surgery to construct an approximation of a vagina aren’t able to achieve orgasm as young adults. Tanner stage two is pre-teen age wise. I am dumbfounded that anyone would be able to think that a 12 year old could give meaningful consent to never being able to experience sexual climax or have children. This isn’t routine plastic surgery.
"What word besides mutilation works for this?"
Sometimes I use the word "maim," because it puts the onus on the physicians doing these barbaric treatments when they took an oath to "first do no harm."
12-year-olds aren't consenting to genital surgery, because it is not performed on 12-year-olds.
As for removal of healthy, developing and functioning tissue, have you let, say, Simona Halep know of your concerns that she has "mutilated" herself, or does this particular bit of hectoring only apply to trans youth?
There’s a pathway here. Blockers >>> hormones>>>surgery as older teen or very young adult.
For natal males, blocking in tanner stage two and continuing to estrogen is proving to be essentially irreversible- they can have surgery without enough tissue for the surgeon to work with or they can live with a non-functioning, under developed penis. Most go on to have surgery and the surgical outcomes aren’t great. It’s such a lie to say that 12 year olds aren’t consenting to anything irreversible. It’s a comfortable lie but it’s a lie nonetheless.
This is an issue that I have lived in a much more personal way than you can probably comprehend- paying for and providing post-operative caregiving for my FTM sibling after his double mastectomy in 2002 to mothering a now desisted son to loving and taking care of several additional trans-identified children.
I used to make similar pro-trans arguments. I used to play on your team or at least an adjacent one.
As a mom of children who aren’t transgender but who got caught up in identifying as such for complex reasons, I had no choice but to reevaluate and deeply question my “good liberal” biases and beliefs. Once I did that, insisting puberty blockers are just “a harmless pause button” and that no irreversible surgeries are done in young people without extensive therapeutic safeguards in place was no longer an option. I’ve spoken to doctors, therapists, endocrinologists, parents, happily trans adults, desisted and detransitioned teens and adults. We are living through a medical malpractice scandal, one that hurts transgender people as much as those who ultimately end up desisting or detransitioning.
What you call “hectoring” I would call “saving my child (who has long expressed a desire to be a father someday) from sterilizing himself” and “reminding my niece that liking girls doesn’t mean she’s a boy- it’s really ok to be a lesbian”.
Many good points here. Thank you also for letting us know your personal experiences.
In particular I appreciate you bringing up the dubious nature of the consent involved in surgeries if the child (and parents) have already been on this path for years and (understandably) feel committed to it.
Also, comparing an elective double mastectomy to breast reduction is such a silly argument. A double mastectomy completely eliminates the primary functions of the breasts- a reduction can often be done in such a way that most function is maintained. Have you listened to any detransitioned women speak about their experiences or is your opinion rooted in your own unchallenged political beliefs?