Yes, but it's still Indian food. Mexican food has been popular in the US for a long time, but it's still Mexican food. I say this all quite tongue-in-cheek, but Indian food is not British food.
Sorry, by couscous I meant the dish, not the ingredient. In France (and in the small North African diaspora in my old London suburb) “couscous” was on menus and referred to a meat & veg strew accompanied by couscous, as in the recipe given in the link at the end of in the article below:
I suspect it may have happened because at the time of introduction over 100 years ago, the North African way of serving couscous was so different to the Northern European ways of managing starches that the grain name stood for the whole way of preparing and eating it with a saucy stew, but I’m still hearing it used colloquially that way even now.
Also - I don’t understand your point about the time of integration? As Matthew points out, Indian food has been integrating into British cuisine for a very long time.
It’s more about how. Take pasta. Originally developed in Asia. Brought over to Europe. Used as a staple ingredient i. Italian dishes.
It’s a single ingredient that was integrated into the local quisine. And done so long ago they it’s not even “fusion” anymore.
This is way different then just going “we have Pho shops, so…that’s totally Italian food now”.
So, how it’s integrated determines whether it’s a fusion of style using ingredients both local and not or if it’s not remotely local. Time and prevalence determines if it’s fully absorbed as a local staple dish.
It’s not a science or anything. Lots of gray. But there’s a definite difference between Bhan Mi or a Bolognese Pasta and saying “Indian food? Yeah. That’s British now.”
I know it was kind of a joke anyway. There’s great food in any major city.
This takes me back to my junior year abroad in the late eighties in Paris. What I remember most is: 1. the metro station (Censier Daubenton) 2. the cafeteria had a delicious stew fueled by harissa over couscous (I'd save up my au pair money to have it with a room temperature Diet Coke--so American--that cost 5 francs at the time--more than the meal) 3. afterwords, we'd go to an enormous mosque across the street that operated a cafe where we'd have those wonderfully dry almond cookies with sweet mint tea.
It's delicious. I use it colloquially like you do--and always think of those awesome stews!
You’ve reminded me of a business trip I took to Arizona many years ago, where I met a couple of colleagues from our Mexico City office at a big client meeting. Afterwards our American hosts took us for “Mexican,” cheerfully pointing out the irony of taking Mexican people out for Mexican food.
My colleagues, out of earshot some hours later, both thoroughly repudiated the idea that the dinner had been Mexican in any way, shape or form.
Of course, and I don't mean to sound like I'm taking this super seriously, because I'm not. I'm of Indian descent (not that that really matters), and I'm glad that British people developed a love for Indian food, but it's just not British food. And btw, none of this has anything to do with calling Helen racist, even though she obviously is ;)
English people claiming Indian food as their own is a dark form of irony.
Wait til you hear about the French embrace of merguez & couscous.
Couscous has been integrated into French cuisine for over 100 years. It’s a single ingredient that hey now use.
Like pasta in Italy.
I don’t think that’s at all the same as just out right claiming an entire separate diaspora of food from another culture
Indian food has also been popular in the UK for over 100 years. The first Indian restaurant in London was opened 214 years ago.
Yes, but it's still Indian food. Mexican food has been popular in the US for a long time, but it's still Mexican food. I say this all quite tongue-in-cheek, but Indian food is not British food.
Neither is Fish and Chips by that gauge.
Yes, fish & chips is also an import - like St George. Heh. But we’ll always have Stonehenge!
Sorry, by couscous I meant the dish, not the ingredient. In France (and in the small North African diaspora in my old London suburb) “couscous” was on menus and referred to a meat & veg strew accompanied by couscous, as in the recipe given in the link at the end of in the article below:
https://gherkinstomatoes.com/2011/06/28/couscous-in-france-nothing-really-new/
I suspect it may have happened because at the time of introduction over 100 years ago, the North African way of serving couscous was so different to the Northern European ways of managing starches that the grain name stood for the whole way of preparing and eating it with a saucy stew, but I’m still hearing it used colloquially that way even now.
Also - I don’t understand your point about the time of integration? As Matthew points out, Indian food has been integrating into British cuisine for a very long time.
That’s different then couscous as an ingredient.
It’s more about how. Take pasta. Originally developed in Asia. Brought over to Europe. Used as a staple ingredient i. Italian dishes.
It’s a single ingredient that was integrated into the local quisine. And done so long ago they it’s not even “fusion” anymore.
This is way different then just going “we have Pho shops, so…that’s totally Italian food now”.
So, how it’s integrated determines whether it’s a fusion of style using ingredients both local and not or if it’s not remotely local. Time and prevalence determines if it’s fully absorbed as a local staple dish.
It’s not a science or anything. Lots of gray. But there’s a definite difference between Bhan Mi or a Bolognese Pasta and saying “Indian food? Yeah. That’s British now.”
I know it was kind of a joke anyway. There’s great food in any major city.
Yes, that is different than couscous just as an ingredient. That was my point.
This takes me back to my junior year abroad in the late eighties in Paris. What I remember most is: 1. the metro station (Censier Daubenton) 2. the cafeteria had a delicious stew fueled by harissa over couscous (I'd save up my au pair money to have it with a room temperature Diet Coke--so American--that cost 5 francs at the time--more than the meal) 3. afterwords, we'd go to an enormous mosque across the street that operated a cafe where we'd have those wonderfully dry almond cookies with sweet mint tea.
It's delicious. I use it colloquially like you do--and always think of those awesome stews!
If they say "Chicken Tikka Massala was invented in England!", you can truthfully tell them it was not - it was invented in Glasgow, Scotland
I suspect that the California burrito was invented in California, but it's still Mexican food.
You’ve reminded me of a business trip I took to Arizona many years ago, where I met a couple of colleagues from our Mexico City office at a big client meeting. Afterwards our American hosts took us for “Mexican,” cheerfully pointing out the irony of taking Mexican people out for Mexican food.
My colleagues, out of earshot some hours later, both thoroughly repudiated the idea that the dinner had been Mexican in any way, shape or form.
We like to consider people of Indian decent who are British as - Brits! ;)
Get along with you, next you’ll be suggesting the Prime Minister is British.
Of course, and I don't mean to sound like I'm taking this super seriously, because I'm not. I'm of Indian descent (not that that really matters), and I'm glad that British people developed a love for Indian food, but it's just not British food. And btw, none of this has anything to do with calling Helen racist, even though she obviously is ;)
ISWYDT